Licensing

[ncmva]

I know this is a subject with possible gray areas, however the way I look at it, is if a company gives me an opportunity to do it legit im going to make an effort to do so.

So i'd like to gather information about game companies, the games they provide, contact info for licensing, cost, and any other useful information.

Right now the only one that I have been able to contact is steam, and I'm pretty sure everyone already knows where to go for that but I am going to post it anyway.

https://cafe.steampowered.com/

-Nick

[Deeds]

Yeah Steam is going to be a great resource for you in having a starting selection of games.  As for publishers and the licenses they provide.  Well not all publishers offer a license.  And the ones that are offering them are letting igames.org mediate them.  You'll have to sign up for a membership ($150 to get setup, and then $45 a month afterwards last I looked) and pay a filing fee with each publisher they have available to get setup.  Its like $25 bucks a license last I looked.

I've always wondered if there was a "cheaper" way to do then going through igames but I always used igames because it saved time on my end of things because I filled the license form out and they took care of all the filing.  Plus you get a few nice perks with iGames. (One being like a %10-20? discount on your monthly steam cybercafe account)

Its would be awesome if we could find another way to get the publisher licensing thou if you don't feel you want an iGames membership.

-deeds

[rkrol]

Well if there was enough game centers that would be willing to sign their names to a simple letter to each publisher there is always a chance. All we would have to do is collect all the publishers we would want to use and send out a mailer with the request. Hey, even with having to pay maybe a little more on filing we could save on monthly costs and all compared to what we would have to do with igames. We might be able to set up one where there is no monthly membership to get the licenses. Just a thought I am willing to help and work on it if I have someone working with me on it. But I think they would want to have a good number of Centers or future centers on the list signed to the letter of request.

[GCD]

You would need about 200 Centers before any large publisher would talk to you, as well many have signed exclusivity contracts with I-Games, meaning they are the only organization allowed to manage their license to game centers.  A perfect example of this is Howie's Game Shack, largest game center company in the USA, maybe North America.  They had originally not joined I-games and were working with EA on events and games.  I-Games informed EA that Howies did not have a license and they were in violation of their agreement with I-Games.  EA stopped all activities with Howie's and Howie's had to join I-Games to get licensing.  Now if a company that has 1,500 stations cant work directly with a publisher on licensing a company with 100 stations probably will not even get a call back. 

On another note when it comes to licensing, the I-Games license cost about $25 per publisher to get, were as if you look at licensing that has just come from publishers it cost a whole lot more.  Blizzard is a perfect example,  it is $25 per station, per game, per year, and you had to do all of their games, then you still had to buy the games.  So a center that has 40 PCs would need to pay blizzard every year $3,000.  Your support that they promised was non-existent, and the only benefit you got was your website was put in their game center section, which no one went to.  The program is still around but, Blizzard does not support it and you most likely will never get a call back or a follow-up email from them.

As I see it there are 2 options for game centers when it comes to licensing, join I-games and buy the license through them, or don’t be licensed.  I can tell you as a matter of fact no game center in North America has ever been sued by a publisher for commercial use of software.   

[Deeds]

You would need about 200 Centers before any large publisher would talk to you, as well many have signed exclusivity contracts with I-Games, meaning they are the only organization allowed to manage their license to game centers.  A perfect example of this is Howie's Game Shack, largest game center company in the USA, maybe North America.  They had originally not joined I-games and were working with EA on events and games.  I-Games informed EA that Howies did not have a license and they were in violation of their agreement with I-Games.  EA stopped all activities with Howie's and Howie's had to join I-Games to get licensing.  Now if a company that has 1,500 stations cant work directly with a publisher on licensing a company with 100 stations probably will not even get a call back. 

On another note when it comes to licensing, the I-Games license cost about $25 per publisher to get, were as if you look at licensing that has just come from publishers it cost a whole lot more.  Blizzard is a perfect example,  it is $25 per station, per game, per year, and you had to do all of their games, then you still had to buy the games.  So a center that has 40 PCs would need to pay blizzard every year $3,000.  Your support that they promised was non-existent, and the only benefit you got was your website was put in their game center section, which no one went to.  The program is still around but, Blizzard does not support it and you most likely will never get a call back or a follow-up email from them.

As I see it there are 2 options for game centers when it comes to licensing, join I-games and buy the license through them, or don’t be licensed.  I can tell you as a matter of fact no game center in North America has ever been sued by a publisher for commercial use of software.   

Yeap, its the better safe then sorry mindset.  I've always had the licensing at my gamecenters but I knew it wasn't really required.  And by saying it wasn't required I mean there's no precedent of getting in any sort of trouble for not having a license.  Its actually kinda sketchy of a subject if your even really required to have license in the first place.

-deeds

[ncmva]

Yeah but like you said, better safe the sorry.  Fact is if they tried, i don't think there are many LAN centers out there that could survive after paying legal fees to fight it.

[GCD]

I personally am someone who takes the better safe then sorry approach, if there is a license available I would recommend getting it, however if there is not one currently available I would not go seeking out a publishers to give money to.  I think you are correct that most centers could not afford a legal fight, but that goes for the publishers also, there is a chance they could lose a legal battle, and that would be devastating to their bottom line.  That is why this industry has never seen a law suit regarding this issue, because neither side is sure they would win, and losing is not an option.  So it sits in legal limbo

On the issue of trying to negotiate your own licensing agreement with publishers, I think it is something that would not be possible right now.  Maybe once the industry sees consolidation like what happened in the Video rental industry, you should see Game Center companies able to negotiate deals with publishers. 

[rkrol]

Makes since on getting all the legal protection cheaper with igames.

I too have not heard the necessity to be licensed,but I can understand not wanting the risk either. Perhaps it is best take take all this with a grain of salt. Pay extra cost up front and the monthly cost with sleeping soundly at night. Or save money, but always be worried and paranoid about the loss of your facility if a law suit does ensue.

[ncmva]

I actually did get a reply from blizzard.

"Hi Nick,
 
Thank you for your inquiry into our site-licensing program. We appreciate your interest in making Blizzard games a part of your own gaming community.
 
We’re currently in the process of revising and improving our North America Site Licensing program with an eye toward being able to better serve game centers and our community of players. Our aim is to create a program that’s more user-friendly, provides more for game centers, and allows participants to get involved at a lower cost.
 
Once the new program is finalized, we’ll be sharing details on our websites and sending out an email with more information. Thanks for your patience, and we look forward to sharing the new and improved program with you soon.
 
Regards,
Blizzard Entertainment "

Just thought i'd share that!

Nick

[rkrol]

let me know price if they sound affordable, but from recent comments above... I plan to expect igames cheapest like GCD has mentioned, But it is still worth a shot, right?

[RsteeleAUG]

When licensing for LAN centers do you have to license the game AND the console?

Or could you basically say the customers are renting the time and game and you let them use the console for free?
Some questions were raised about the PS3 and Sony's terms of service.

Just wondering.

[Deeds]

When licensing for LAN centers do you have to license the game AND the console?

Or could you basically say the customers are renting the time and game and you let them use the console for free?
Some questions were raised about the PS3 and Sony's terms of service.

Just wondering.

The microsoft license from iGames covers the xbox.  With PS3 there is a SCEA license you can(Or used to be able to) get from igames, but I don't think it specifically covers the PS3 if at all.  But, if a problem ever arises you can word it strangle were you aren't actually charging them time for the machine.

I always had a contingency that if any problems were ever raised with my setup I was actually going to word by TOU (Terms of Use) that they were actually paying to use the chair they sat in and that anything they did while sitting in.

[RsteeleAUG]

Is there a list some where on iGames of what game licensing they provide? I found a list of game companies and am researching now to get a list of games together.

[RsteeleAUG]

When licensing for LAN centers do you have to license the game AND the console?

Or could you basically say the customers are renting the time and game and you let them use the console for free?
Some questions were raised about the PS3 and Sony's terms of service.

Just wondering.

The microsoft license from iGames covers the xbox.  With PS3 there is a SCEA license you can(Or used to be able to) get from igames, but I don't think it specifically covers the PS3 if at all.  But, if a problem ever arises you can word it strangle were you aren't actually charging them time for the machine.

I always had a contingency that if any problems were ever raised with my setup I was actually going to word by TOU (Terms of Use) that they were actually paying to use the chair they sat in and that anything they did while sitting in.

So that's where the gray area is I can put it in the Terms of use that they pay for the chair or TV use and the system/game is free.
I've been looking at the Igames site and the sites for all of the companies they license for and I see some great games. I could still have other games that I don't have the licenses for and word it just like that and then if a problem does arise go back to the terms of use and show that they don't pay for the use of the game or system.

Also sent an email to game center direct haven't heard anything back yet.
I'm pricing TV's, Game systems, and furniture Saturday, suppose to have a quote from a local guy on the Gaming PC's sometime today or tomorrow.

Thanks again Deeds.

[Deeds]

Yeah I would get licensing for the games you can get licensing for but I wouldn't go out of my way to get licensing for games that isn't readily available.
Also don't forget the steam cybercafe program.  For the sheer amount of games they provide you with it worth the per month costs for each seat.
-deeds